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Because I live to entertain, and because I make bad life choices, I have decided to recap 1985’s Civil War classic, North and South. Look for a new episode recap each day of Snark Week, and enjoy the frosted lipstick!
We begin on a plantation in South Carolina, 1842. Two REALLY ANNOYING little girls are dressed in frilly dresses, holding hands and skipping the way no real human beings have ever done. Oh, and they’re skipping through the slave cabins, what fun!

Turns out their Big Brother, Patrick Swayze, is the son of this planter family and is headed to West Point for military school. He won’t even get any leave for two years. Swayze’s hair is the fluffiest mullet you’ve ever seen, and he is ROCKING the poly-baroque-satin PEACH CRAVAT. CRAVATS. SHOULD NOT BE PEACH-COLORED. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
Mom is polite to a house slave. Clearly we are Good Southerners.



Swayze runs into a Southern belle whose carriage has overturned, because either she or her driver are an idiot and are running their horses at breakneck speed. Meet “Tits Out” (Madeline), played by Lesley-Anne Down. Swayze is mesmerized by her beauty and charm. I am mesmerized by her inappropriate cleavage, frosty makeup, and attempts to portray a charmingly sweet 16-25ish-year-old when the actress is every inch 31. Tits Out is accompanied by her governess-type attendant, free woman of color Maum Sally. They’ve just moved to Charleston from New Or-leahns but are visiting a family in the neighborhood.


Because I like keeping one toe in reality, here’s an 1840 fashion plate showing the look of the period:

Swayze offers Tits a ride to the plantation she’s supposed to visit. She divests herself of her ugly hat (because, of course, Southern ladies are TOTALLY into suntanning) and happily joins him for a snuggly ride. En route, they make out, and she gives him her handkerchief (not a euphemism).

Let’s look at early 1840s hair:


Swayze takes Tits to her father, who is a low-rent Ricardo Montalban. They’re visiting a planter played by David Carradine, and his thinning hair and 1970s lapels tell me he’s no good.

Swayze ends up in New York City and is all “aw shucks gee!” at how big and impressive it is. He suddenly has a trunk that he hadn’t had during all the Tits shenanigans, and ends up in a fight with some Irish hustlers who want him to pay them to carry his trunk. Pennsylvania boy George Hazard pulls up all jaunty with hooooors in tow, then jumps into Swayze’s fight. The two begin a Serious Bromance, which involves some polite discussion about slavery — Swayze claims “some of us” are more progressive, but doesn’t disavow the institution.

At David Carradine’s plantation, Low Rent Ricardo Montalban is on the poly-baroque satin, peach cravat train, thus making me question my life choices. Tits joins in, wearing her own peach-colored poly-baroque satin stripey dress with puffed sleeves, cleavage, and lipstick to match. HER HAIR has gone from faux-mid-Victorian to full tilt, teased Dynasty level 1980s perm.
Oh, people talk about the issue of annexing Texas as a slave state and the possibility of war with Mexico. Low Rent Ricardo Montalban has ALWAYS encouraged his daughter to read and have her own opinions.

Swayze and George show up at West Point. Nearly every possible soldier-y drill is happening. They are impressed but nervous about hazing.

It’s time for Tits and Papa to head to Charleston, but not before David Carradine has more time to ooze over Tits. She’s apparently gotten extensions, because no perm straightens out to THAT long of a braid. I actually kind of like her riding habit, minus the whole inappropriate-cleavage thing. Oh, and the fact that NONE of the women’s dresses in this episode in any way read as 1840. It’s all much more general-mid-Victorian, maybe 1850s or 60s, although at least there’s no hoops (as there shouldn’t be yet). We learn that Carradine beats his slaves, which must mean he’s a Bad Southerner.



Back at West Point, our boys are being trained by Cadet Bent, who is from Geor-juh and Southern up to HEAH. He doesn’t seem to like anybody, but particularly is harsh on dorky northern farmer Fisk, who is VERY out and proud in being anti-slavery — but not for moral reasons, because slave labor is cheaper and so his father’s farm is always barely squeaking by. Bent gets all sadistic, making Swayze and George do some kind of hazing exercise that involves goose-stepping while holding buckets of water.
Back in the dorm, Swayze writes to Tits, using this tender moment to get his shirt off and his hair extra fluffy.

In Charleston, Tits is all a-twitter at getting a letter from Swayze. Once again, her hair (and lipstick) is full Dynasty. Maum Sally is actually semi-decently dressed, although again, there’s nothing terribly 1840s about the style lines on anybody’s dresses.

Back at West Point, Bent keeps picking on Fisk, but Swayze shows him via a super dorky saber fight that Swayze wins. Bent is humiliated, and is excited to catch Swayze and George out drinking at the local tavern. He chases them, falls through some ice, and Swayze rescues him. But Bent continues to be a jerk, making Swayze do guard duty in the snow despite being sick. Luckily insert-rank Grant (as in, Ulysses) steps in on Swayze’s side.
Tits is sad! Swayze has stopped returning her letters! Maybe it’s because she can’t seem to put her tits away, or dress in any way in 1840s-style fashion? Maum Sally tries to comfort her. David Carradine visits and brings her a cheesy unicorn music box.

It’s 1842 and our boys have finally gotten leave! George takes Swayze to visit his family and their ironworks in Pennsylvania. We meet George’s family, including sister VIRGILIA, a name that doesn’t even need a nickname because it inherently sounds like a venereal disease. She’s played by Kirstie Alley, who is wearing a shitty acetate taffeta dress with her own tits out, and frizzy, frizzy hair that is essentially the same style she wore on Cheers.
VIRGILIA (all caps, because it’s such a bad name) is reading all that abolitionist literature. She asks Swayze if he’s evil.



George takes Swayze to tour the ironworks, because Swayze is all fired up to modernize his plantation and install a cotton mill. There’s a lot of pointed discussion about slavery, and how the way the northerners treat their workers is not that different from the way southerners treat their slaves.
At dinner, some random floozy wearing plastic cameo jewelry is waaaaay into Swayze, being all excited about passing the salt and pepper.

Kirstie Alley would have been about 34 when this was filmed, and just like Tits, reads as waaaaay too old to wear her hair down. She’s clearly on the comb-your-hair-100-times-so-it’s-extra-frizzy bandwagon. Also, the nude-toned, spackle-applied makeup bandwagon. She makes a giant statement against slavery, and stalks away from the table.

Swayze has been sad because Tits stopped answering his letters. He stops by her house in Charleston, but nobody is home. So he heads home for a visit.

Swayze finds out that the new overseer has started whipping the slaves. He tells off the overseer.
Swayze’s family has been invited to a wedding! Dun dun DUNNNNNN — Tits is marrying David Carradine! She’s wearing some Gunne Sax I-don’t-know-what-the-fuck, including the world’s ugliest veil. There’s a ridiculous dramatic moment where she and Carradine turn around mid-wedding ceremony to watch Swayze ride up on his horse.


There haven’t been a ton of extras so far, but they’ve been decently dressed. Until now. Now we know where all those early 1980s bridesmaid’s dresses ended up.

Swayze and his fluffy hair are about to leave, but Tits confronts him about why he stopped writing to her. She realizes that her father must have destroyed both of their letters. It’s all VERY TRAGIC, but not as tragic as that fugly-assed sheer/lace neckline fill-in.

On the wedding night, David Carradine rapes Tits. Apparently it’s incredibly easy to rip open a structured, boned bodice, who knew? Oh, no chemise or corset underneath, natch. Once he’s asleep, Tits puts on the SHINIEST plastic-metal-thread-accented lace dressing gown to have ever existed, and contemplates her fate.

Dear god, why did I sign up for this?
Dying. Just dying
I loath Civil War shows, except for Mercy Street & Gone With the Wind.
The costumes here are soo awful that Jon Rhys Meyers would feel at home. My advice is to avoid this at all costs. Watch Jane Austen series/movies instead. Or Wives and Daughters, Barchester, Pallisers.
Oh man, the clothing. The make up. The HAIR. It’s like Greace mixed with Amadeus attempt to rip off Gone with the Wind.
I got a crush on Patrick from this show back in the day. the ONLY things worse than the costuming are the accents, and the wigs. young Ashtons wigs are horrific aliens attempting to eat her brain. Genie Francis’ accent set back North and South relations for DECADES. it’s worse than Sandy Dennis’s. oh the horror! I think this show used up Hollywoods supply of poly satin for a few months.
I actually watched this as a tween; it was aired on TV mid/late 90s during my Civil War history obsession phase. Thankfully I don’t remember most of it. The costumes were never good, but this review also lays bare some serious issues (not beating people ≠ good person, esp. when you still own the people you’re not beating).
Gawd, the ‘feel good’ Southerner thing, just bec. you’re not actually whipping slaves, even tho’ you still own them. Fuuuuuck. It’s as fakey as the poly baroque satin!
So many thoughts on this topic that I could write way too much but basically it just shows how societies corrupted by evil systems end up placing a finger on the scale of all sorts of evils. Sure, it’s better for owners not to beat their slaves, but once you compare to “bad” owners it’s so easy to view one as abusive and the other not, but the whole system is abusive. It’s really insidious. I felt like 12 Years a Slave was a powerful antidote to this in a lot of ways. Even the “nice” owner let Solomon be tortured by his overseer, and sold a woman off rather than face her grief over the children he separated her from.
Agreed. It’s important to show the range of experiences, but it’s a sliding scale of morality and nobody comes out looking good. Honestly I’d be more okay with them trying to show “not every slave owner was an abusive asshole” if they gave any African Americans more of a role in this production (and yes, I am mid-way through the series so I have seen their lame attempt at doing so).
I LOVE to read this review, even though I am not at all into the time period. The bosoms are lovely, as is everyone being decades and decades younger than I remember them ever being, even when this first came out. Guess it’s because looking back, I am decades older.
This review cracks me up bigtime. Thanks!
I straight up laughed at some of that make-up. That and the hair really date this, which you’ve noted in the past. I’m a child of the 90s, so 80s hair and make-up are the worst for me.
I’m a huge Kirstie Alley fan, and always felt that she was one of those women that looked perpetually 34. Like, she could have been 16 and looked 34. Gorgeous, to be sure, but never looked anything younger than 34.
Of course, I feel that way about a lot of women who were famous actresses in the 80s. Why do they all look 34???
If you have to be stuck at one age, that’s not a bad place to be!
Truth!
Of course, we all have our cheesy faves! In fact I recently did a post about “top 5 cheesy frock flicks I have secretly loved”! :)
Hell, some of the stuff we snark brutally are the very same shows we love the most. Doesn’t mean you can’t still call a spade a spade while still enjoying something. Wait until you read my Juana Ines post tomorrow… It’s all about enjoying a show while at the same time acknowledging that the costumes were spectacularly bad.
Wow! I’m still laughing!!
Lame outfits, the hais styles are even worse but a great show. I love it. Not Kirstie Alley. She’s rally, rally annoying. In the book she’s even worse. 😆
I will never be able to think of or see Lesley Anne Downe again without thinking “tits” you have made my evening x
I lived through half of the first night of it when it played on ABC in college. While I honestly don’t think I had much clue at the time about the costumes, the apologetics for the Confederate cause was more than I could take. I told my roommate she’d be on her own if she insisted on watching it any further. She did, I spent a couple of good nights in the library and ditched her for a happy second semester in Italy, far from the polyester (and I never spoke with that roommate again). Sadly, the racist sentiment has spread since this awful miniseries (or its sequels)–as seen in Charlottesville, this summer. God help you, Kendra and all the actors trapped in this horror. I would not will that shit on any friend.
It’s really going after everything with the broadest of strokes, which just ends up obscuring the real pain of the true history. Painting abolitionists as 100% embracing African Americans is just as untrue as the idea that if you were nice to your slave, it really wasn’t that bad of a system.
I have all the feels for Lesley Ann Downs. She is a decent English actress with “page 3 assets” and the common sense to put her scruples about poly satin aside in favour of a comfortable retirement.
Wait for it…
Orry Main – be still my heart, I’m having the vapahs! (mullet and all)
Enjoy the cheese! :)
So, you’re snarking on “North and South” huh? Pity. It’s actually a lot better than people are willing to admit. I like how the production is willing to be so openly critical of slavery and racism, despite the fact that a good number of its main characters are Southern slave owners. I also like how it portrays the antebellum period of the 1840s and 1850s with a depth that is rare in many movie and television productions.
It’s funny. The production been bashed by many for its melodrama, yet stories by many other authors – including Charles Dickens and Margaret Mitchell – are brimming with over-the-top melodrama. Yet, their stories are rarely criticized for this. As for the costumes . . . well, I’ve already pointed this out in another post that some of the costumes are questionable and some of them are quite good.
Maybe you want to sit this week out?
I guess I won’t be the only one.
I’m recapping, which means you get to read my personal thoughts on the production. You get to have your own thoughts on it, too! That’s the joy of being individuals. And if you decide to read each recap, you’ll see that I will certainly point out when they do things right, costume-wise.
How is it special to be “openly critical of slavery” in 1985. Was the mainstream in 1985 pro slavery? On the contrary, by portraying some Southern slave owners as “nice” because they are critical of slavery, while neglecting to give actual black people significant screen time, the show is being remarkably dense and disrespectful. As if the Civil War was this tragic misunderstanding between two groups of mostly-nice white Americans — a war in which black people had no role except as an issue.
Also, if anything, I think Kendra was too easy on some of the costumes.
Thanks, you said this perfectly: “As if the Civil War was this tragic misunderstanding between two groups of mostly-nice white Americans — a war in which black people had no role except as an issue.”
Accurate and balanced portrayal of southern slave owner’s mentality is difficult to pull off when your “heroes” are from families of southern plantationers which were, indeed, the biggest slave owners. And the show seems way too dumb for that. I guess we should leave it on that and apply MST3K mantra?
I see that none of you really understood Jakes’ trilogy at all. You seemed to be accusing it of being pro-slavery without actually saying it. WHY?
The black characters in the “NORTH AND SOUTH” had no real issue in the narrative? Are you KIDDING ME? That’s your main complaint??? Did you even watch the trilogy, let alone read the novels?
I’ve never seen this. Oddly enough I’m contemplating watching but may regret that decision.
Wow- they take a pretty craptastic period clothes-wise and make it even more craptastic…except for the cleavage thing…oh wait, I’m not the right demographic for that anymore.
Not all of the costumes are terrible. I really don’t understand this excessive criticism of it. It’s almost over-the-top to me.
Oh, come on, the painfully dated 1980s hair alone is more than worthy of Snark Week!
If by “Not all” you mean “the bodice neckline that MIGHT be actually kind of sort of correct” than I would agree with you. I actually saw ONE dress that was not half-bad but it was still really really REALLY off.
Everyone has their own take. My take was just to be asking “WTH IS SHE WEARING?” With every screen cap that came up. I like accuracy. And the 1840s is the beginning of the period I particularly specialize my research in (1840-1875) so it bothers me immensely when I see it done wrong, because it’s a period I particularly like.
Do I think the criticism can be unfair sometimes? Maybe. I don’t agree with Kendra’s (or was it Trystan’s? Sorry ladies!) critique of bonnets always looking derpy. I think a well-executed bonnet, with the correct shape, right weight of materials, and trimmings that’s correct can look AMAZING. But hey – I still love Frock Flicks. I don’t agree with them all the time either, but it’s OK.
Over-the-top snark for over-the-top costumes.
+1
So many dinosaurs died to make this … whatever it is
RIP Dinosuars – lest we forget.
The dinosaurs were revenged by the dragons of GOT.
Between the miles of polyester, mountains of plastic jewels, and metric shit-tonne of empty hairspray cans that inevitably produced these hairstyles, this production may single-highhandedly be responsible for the climate crisis.
It’s a small thing, but the dreadful plastic bead edging on that monstrosity of a wedding veil cap (????) just hollers CHEAP to me. And I thought this was supposed to be a lavish production. Does anyone remember if this is the miniseries featured in an article in People back in the day in which the actress playing a brunette vixen (second generation maybe, since I don’t think it was TO) talked about how much bust padding was inflicted upon the actresses, so they would clown around on set and have pretend cat fights where they’d bounce off each other’s foam breasts? Can’t remember the actress’s name, but the image of that fake-bosom sumo has stuck with me over the years. :)
THAT IS THE BEST ANECDOTE EVER
Let’s face it. The mid- to late-1980s were an exercise in reimagining the mid-Victorian and Edwardian eras — in polyester satin and Aquanet.
Not entirely. The BBC were making historically accurate series in those years though I feel that the heyday of the British costume drama was the 70s. I am currently watching a relatively low budget series from the late 70s which looks accurate to my eye, clearly using actual period lace, hair up and or covered, correct necklines, suitable fabrics..
The late ’80s IN AMERICA tho!
(and, let’s face it, Princess Di’s wedding gown :)
Nobody looked like a teen in the 80s–we all looked 30 with the caked on makeup and frizztastic hair.
Hilarious. “…she gives him her handkerchief (not a euphemism).”
More…more…
Never seen this series but enjoying this immensely. Those costumes/hair/makeup are so so so terribly bad reflecting the respect, or lack of, Hollywood has for history. Sadly it is a lack of care that seems to be infectious..(thinking of last year’s War and Peace travesty)
Oh and when it comes to snarking bad costumes in favourite series I would welcome a snark week item on the costumes in the other, North and South, (BBC) one of my favourite TV series which is marred for me by some of the costumes and historically jarring aspects of the script. Though those criticisms are indeed subtle in comparison.
Great recap.
I like how you mentioned Maum Sally and her style. I’ve seen many North and South discussions completely ignore Maum Sally and the other enslaved characters. Interestingly, I feel as if Maum Sally got some very accurate tignons. In that they were not always wrapped the same way and because of her privileged position as a favored FPOC she had fabric enough for tignons of multiple different colors.
Agreed!
In season 2 the costumes got a little better, because the costume designer changed.
So enjoying these posts! I wasted my early teens on being a Civil War-nerd thanks to this fab show. I even read the books and invested my birthday money in the video tapes. The story is of course cringeworthy and them gentlemen are wearing costumes that look nothing like the 1840s. But still… Whenever I hear the score it’s the 1980s again and I’m eleven…
I know that in late-Victorian era riding habits were supposed to be black, with other dark colours (green, navy, brown, lighter grey for summer) as an option. Maybe in the 1840s they allowed more variety, but bright purple doesn’t seem right. It goes without saying that riding habits came up to the neck, but so did other daytime dresses, so whatever.
The hair is awesome. No woman in the 1840s would be caught dead in it.
I kind of like the blue-striped skirt of Madeline’s first dress, though. Not on her and not in this costume (which is all-round awful), but I like the fabric. I wouldn’t mind wearing it, in the shape of some other, non-historic dress. Assuming it’s not the terriblt 1980s polyester, that is.
White fluffy wedding dress is very similar to 1984-85 prom dress. https://flic.kr/p/4kWLD5
Hot damn, I love y’all SO MUCH. ::pauses to wipe streaming eyes, honk nose, measure the fluffiness of the Swayze mullet::
I remember watching this once, several years ago – I think I was in middle school? I was extremely feverish and drifted in and out of being asleep vs being awake. I wasn’t sure how much of what I remembered was real. Turns out it was an unfortunately large amount. I definitely thought it was set in the 1850s though, and had no idea it wasn’t until this post….
I’m through with this blog.
I own that wedding dress
Too much mascara and acetate dresses
Mullets to fit with your long auburn tresses,
Tan lines and hair frizz and hoors wearing fringe-
These are the things that make costumers cringe!