27 thoughts on “TBT: John Adams, Episode 4

  1. Why does Tom Holland’s George III make me think of HAMILTON? But Abby is dissing TJ on his keeping slaves and letting him know that he needs to free women and the slaves.
    BTW what about Arby’s awesome gown for Versailles?

  2. No judgement here, hope you’re all doing okay.

    Wouldn’t his hair have been shaved anyway because he wears a wig? I’m not entirely familiar with how that works.

    1. In an early episode, we saw John coming home from a hard day and tossing his wig away to reveal a balding head. John Singleton Copley was the great portraitist of Colonial Boston and he showed us men without wigs (Paul Revere, Samuel Adams), men who sometimes perched wigs atop their natural hair to show their station in life (John Hancock) and at least one elegant gentleman relaxing in a sumptuous banyan with a turban on his shaved head.

      Given the earlier scene, it looks as though sickness had caused a shaven head.

  3. Silly question, is/would that be a wig in the last 2 pics (historically I mean) and if it is a wig why have such a receding hairline?

    1. Natural hair was probably the style for government work in the new republic. Of course, the actor may be wearing a wig–but it represents real hair.

      Washington never wore a wig. He had his hair powdered on occasion.I

      Styles were in flux in those days. Jefferson brought short hair back from Paris –Revolutionary chic. Later, he was in a position to decree that army officers should cut their hair.

  4. these are lovely. hope you are watching ntlive@home Coriolanus today and the showsmustgoon Peter Pan tomorrow. these theatre productions are completely helping me to get through this.

  5. The Founding Father sex is kinda ick / weird (feels intrusive and wrong?) but aside from that, this is one of my favorite episodes just for prettily dressed Jefferson flirting up a storm with Abigail and John Adams Not Having It. LOL

    1. I have never felt so uncomfortable watching a sex scene with so many clothes still on. And it seemed to last forever. Been over a decade now and still. That’s kind of HBO’s gig though. In light of me too stories about how these scenes could be abusive… I’m glad hbo apparently has invested in intimacy coordinators but I’d rather just go a little more old school and fade to black a lot earlier.

      1. I read somewhere the actors improved the entire thing and added a sex scene that wasn’t in the script — but I don’t know if it’s true or not. It did feel “out of place” given the rest of the miniseries.

    2. I have no problems with Founding Father sex. They’re supposed to be humans, after all.

      1. Yup agreed. And felt realistic given their dynamic as a couple and the contest of the scene. I actually though it was pretty great to include it – not pandering at all and a reasonable nod to the real John and Abigail’s very successful partnership.

      2. Did it make sense? Sure. I think actually its accuracy is what made it hard–I felt like an intruder on something special to them. I also think the lead-in accomplished a lot of that. So for me, it’s not “ick founding father sex”–it’s just not something I really want to see in detail.

        1. Fair enough. I felt that much more strongly about Nabby’s upcoming surgery (uh, spoiler). Very difficult to sit through and far less pleasant than a bit of sex.

  6. I seem to recall that the meeting with George III actually went quite well, Adams and the king conceding that each had done what he thought was right and agreeing to let bygones be bygones.

    1. Yeah, the scene in the show is very subtle and I think reflects that dynamic. Also awkward af. It’s a Very, very good show w a lot conveyed through scene set up and subtle body cues.

  7. BTW Adams was ferociously jealous of Washington’s status as the hero of the revolution.

    1. It’s what one loves about J.A.; he’s so very human. Washington never seems quite human, somehow, especially in this. (At least it wasn’t him and Martha having sex; I would have had to dive behind the sofa.) And Abigail’s green frock and the chemise dress are charming; the latter looks almost comfortable. P.S. How nice it is to be someplace where people aren’t arguing about masks, and whether to wear them outside at all times. Has FrockFlicks ever done a deep dive into masks? They were a big deal in the 17th century, I believe.

      1. I honestly wonder if Washington was ace. Or perhaps had a medical condition, like one of the Russian Peters.
        …wait. that sounded bad.

        1. “wait. that sounded bad.”

          So, you KNEW conflating asexuality and medical conditions is a harmful stereotype and yet you still felt the need to hit ‘post’!?

          Thanks for the microaggression! <3

          1. Perhaps she was referring to Washington’s inability to father children. Which has been suggested as a result of smallpox as a young man.

        2. There is no reason to believe Washington didn’t have sex with Martha. To his credit he seems to have accepted that their failure to have children was probably his fault. Possibly due to an adolescent case of smallpox.

      2. There’s a wonderful series of lectures by the presidential historian Richard Norton Smith about Washintron and JA. He loves JA but he had a lot of very interesting stuff to say about Wahington too. The idea that Washington was “embalmed by history” and very difficult to relate to as a man, even during his own lifetime. Smith does a great job of humanizing W and making him genuinely fascinating.

  8. Is it possible Abby would have ordered a chemise a la reine when she came to France? Before, during, and after the visit to France, she has a fair number of rewears; but I also note that she has new hairstyles and a parasol.

  9. Oh, yes, Abby was totally into Tommy J. Or at least Laura Linney was totally into Stephen Dillane. I mean who wouldn’t be. He is positively swoonworthy in this. Ooh-la-la……..

    1. I think probably the latter I this case, or Linney was just playing off Dillane’s flirty interpretation. They were actually friends of course, tom and Abby, but Jefferson was great at making friends with Ladies. He could talk easily to them for whatever reason, but I’ve never found anywhere that it was anything more than platonic.

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